Dog Training Business

Only a few years after Zoom Room began franchising, the podcast Six Figure Dog Business invited Mark Van Wye as their guest. On that episode, Van Wye showcased how Zoom Room had reinvented the business of dog training. Zoom Room was the first brick-and-mortar national dog training franchise. Many entrepreneurs heard the episode, inspired to own their own dog training business.

Ten years later, in 2021, host Ty Brown invited Van Wye back for a follow-up podcast episode. How had the pet industry changed? How had Zoom Room evolved? For one thing, Van Wye had since taken over the CEO role. Zoom Room was now venture-backed, with a new leadership team, cutting edge technology, and with year over year growth far exceeding that of the pet industry as a whole.

The Business of Dog Training

For more than a century, the dog training business had gone largely unchanged. Most dog owners had only a few options, each with their drawbacks. Some would opt for a six session experience at a big box store. Others would pay high prices for a dog trainer to work directly with the dog.

Board and train was expensive. Additionally, the dog’s training would often dissipate once it returned to the home. Some trainers conducted classes in public parks, where risks of infection, distractions or runaways were always at hand. Far too many in-home trainers sought quick fixes with e-collars and other types of aversive training.

In addition to the drawbacks of the old model of dog training, the business model of dog training had not progressed. Big box stores used low prices simply to derive a marginal increase in client spending; their real goal was product sales. Customers often had to repeat the six-week class and had no opportunities for advancement.

For other trainers, the real issue was customer acquisition on the one hand, and lifetime spending on the other. Dog trainers often acquired clients one at a time. Once you finished training a customer, the relationship and thus revenue was over. You had to charge as much as possible, since the cost to acquire a new client was so high.

Zoom Room Disrupts the Dog Training Business

Zoom Room emerged on the scene with a unique ability to solve these inherent deficiencies in the business of dog training. With a dedicated indoor, climate-controlled space, they eliminated the distractions and risk of exposure to unfamiliar dogs.

With a cutting-edge curriculum extending from basic obedience and puppy classes through agility training and enrichment workshops in scentwork, herding, dog tricks, and more, complete with a suite of socialization events and curated retail product offerings, they created multiple revenue streams.

By adding flexibility to the schedule and innovations in price modeling, Zoom Room’s platform allows dog training to be highly repeatable. In fact, Zoom Room clients attend hundreds of classes over many years. A mere 6% of Zoom Room clients stop at only six dog training classes.

Lifetime Revenue (LTR) and Customer Acquisition Cost (CAC)

This flexibility and repeatibility coupled with the diverse options solved one half of the unit economics: lifetime revenue. Having a dedicated facility and an emphasis on group classes, Zoom Room could also run a volume business.

But what about customer acquisition? Zoom Room drove down this cost by focusing on four key pathways:

  1. Location. Because a Zoom Room is zoned retail, potential clients walk or drive by. (Cost: none, other than rent.)
  2. SEO. Thanks to their deep tech stack, and thousands of five-star reviews, Zoom Room ranks multiple times on the first page of organic searches. (Cost: none to the franchisees.)
  3. Social Platform Ads. Zoom Room created its own advertising software. Therefore, its algorithm can locate potential clients efficiently. Their ads provide tremendous ROI. (Cost: varies, but more than recouped.)
  4. Word of Mouth. With a Net Promoter Score of 90, at the level of an Apple or Amazon, happy clients are the best source. Client referrals are the #1 source of business. (Cost: none, other than exceptional customer service.)

Zoom Room has achieved such success with decreasing CAC and increasing LTR that they even include these statistics in their Item 19. (Official statement of Financial Performance.)

Opportunities in Dog Training

During the podcast, Van Wye made it clear that the goal for Zoom Room is nothing short of full ownership of the entire category of dog training. Initially in the United States, and eventually worldwide, the ambition is to make Zoom Room synonymous with dog training.

Host Ty Brown, impressed with everything Zoom Room has achieved, advised his listeners that the presence of Zoom Room leaves them with two options. They either need to up their game to compete, or they can join this newly dominating force in the business of dog training.

Six Figure Dog Business

Six Figure Dog Business
Six Figure Dog Business on Pet Life Radio – Mark Van Wye, CEO of Zoom Room


This is Pet Life Radio. Let’s talk pets. Hello and welcome to six figure dog business. This is the show where we talk about how to grow your dog related business to a healthy six figures per year or more in revenue.

I’m excited for our guest today. We talked to him and I didn’t realize it had been almost 10 years ago to the day that we spoke. And so we had him on years and years and years ago and we’re having him on again and I’m super excited because he gave us a ton of great info back then and I’m sure he’s gonna give us some great info now. So stay with us. We’re gonna be right back here with Mark Van Wye.

Alright, we’re back and so first off, thanks for being on the show. Mark, I appreciate you coming back.

Oh, it’s my pleasure. I remember fondly doing it the first time about a decade ago and since then, among other things, I’ve become the CEO. So back then I was with the company but not in the leadership capacity.

Oh, awesome. Okay, so you’re the CEO of, well let’s get into that. Who are you, who do you work for? Like what do you do tell us about Mark?

Well I’m the boss, so I work for me. I am the CEO of Zoom Room Dog Training and we’ve been franchising for a decade starting right around the time you and I first spoke, we actually got wonderful franchisees out of the last podcast we did together, we have a wonderful franchisee. She used to be a rocket scientist but now has one just outside of Dallas and Trophy Club and she first learned about Zoom Room from listening to you Ty. So I really appreciate that.

And about five years ago I took over as CEO and did a lot of changes to the company since then. And so we’re kind of in our 2.0 version right now.

So for those who don’t know what is Zoom Room, what do you guys do?

We are a national dog training franchise. We’re an indoor dog training gym and our emphasis is really on the human participation and the socialization aspect and on really including and focusing our attention on the dog owners and giving them the education they need to deepen their bonds of communication with the dog.

So you said “gym,” what does that mean? Is this like agility, is that, I mean, what are you guys doing in there?

So we offer everything you’d expect: puppy training obedience, but we set it up very much like a human gym. So we really have a lot of emphasis on physicalization, like the agility course. So we do agility training. We also have a class called Pup-lates® that uses a lot of equipment like you’d find in a Pilates gym to help with core conditioning, confidence-building, strength, balance. It’s good for recovering dogs as well. And we do rally. We do scent work. We do urban herding indoors, anything that you can do to be localized in the safety and security and management of an indoor dog training facility that’s fully dedicated to that one purpose.

Okay, let me dig into this real quick because this is something that I found a lot of businesses struggle with as they try to do a lot of things and when they try to do a lot of things, they end up falling in certain areas. And so as you’re explaining the things you do, you’re talking scent work, you’re talking obedience, you’re talking agility, you’re talking urban herding. There’s a lot of stuff you’re doing, how do you guys manage that? Like the logistics of running so many different programs.

It’s a great question. I mean, for us it is a very laser focused on. In other words, we don’t do any daycare, no boarding, no grooming, no other services. It’s all training. It all utilizes the exact same toolset, which is positive reinforcement. So when you come in with your dog at the beginning you just rescued her or you’ve gotten a new puppy, we really get you inculcated into the mind set of positive reinforcement.

Once you get that down, we can take you and your dog anywhere you want. And then the only complexity of those different types of training is organizing the schedule to follow the demand and serve the specific community of that location best.

So, for example, coming out of 2020 when we of course, we meaning America, saw a 700% increase in dog ownership levels with all of the adoptions and puppies, stores that used to do tons of agility, which will be very popular, really have had to shift to lots of puppy classes just round the clock, puppy classes and basic obedience because that’s really where people are needing us the most right now, and we’re able to very nimbly adapt and serve those needs better when the situation calls for it.

So, do you have multiple customer journeys? So, for example, do you ask everybody to come in through the lens of obedience or can they come into your company through agility? And this one came in through obedience and this one came, Does that make sense? Are there multiple customer journeys are just one?

Absolutely. Definitely. There are multiple ones. There’s certainly the mainstream, which would be someone entering with a newly rescued dog that they know needs some training or a puppy. And then they followed the journey, they fall in love quickly and then they just want to do everything.

I mean, where we’ve really, really changed the key dynamic of dog training more than anywhere else, even more than the emphasis on the human involvement and participation is creating something that is a repeatable lifetime activity.

So whereas dog training traditionally has been, you know, you drop your dog off somewhere or you bring your dog to a Petco for six classes, only 6% of our customers take six classes. 94% continue on. It’s not uncommon for them to take 50, 100, hundreds of classes over the lifetime. It becomes something that they can do infinitely, really the same way you and I won’t go to a yoga class or the gym.

We don’t say, “Oh, only two more classes and I finished yoga and I get my certificate and now I know it.” You do it forever with no end in sight. And we’ve really created a retention program so that people stay with us, don’t tire and never have any lack of things they can continue to do with their dog.

Let me ask you about that. Do you, are you guys able to track your churn rate? Like how much do people turn over and like stop using you? Like what is the stick rate at a Zoom Room?

87%. So we retain 87% of our customers which is extremely high and that’s in part driven by just the satisfaction our customers get from us in terms of star ratings and things like our net promoter score which is a 90 – that’s at the level of like an Apple or an Amazon. The willingness of our customers to refer their friends. That helps lower our customer acquisition cost and really helps to drive that fierce loyalty of how quickly we become part of the daily or weekly lives of our customers.

So I want to ask you maybe for some tips on that and to preface it, I talk a lot, you know when I’m doing consulting with other dog trainers and stuff like that. I talked a lot about, they basically have two models. You know, we get the high ticket model, you know where you’re charging a lot and you need that because you have customer acquisition and you have your costs and you have overhead and labor and all that stuff, or you can have a lower ticket but you have to retain and you have to retain people and continue to get them to purchase your programs over and over and over. Obviously you guys have gone with the latter. I know the short answer might be, “Do a really good job and people keep coming back,” but is there more to it than that?

There is absolutely for us. When we look at at CAC, at Customer Acquisition Cost, we always think of it in the same time as pushing both ends of what you were just talking about. Like we really come at it both ways. So we want to increase lifetime revenue, and we really want to focus on the ratio of what lifetime spending of our customers are versus the cost to acquire them and it’ll vary by industry, you know general rule of business would be you want that to be a 3X or 5X.

At Zoom Room, our lifetime revenue is 50 times our cost to acquire. 100X at the top 25% of clients. And for our franchisees, as the franchisor we really need to look at not just keeping all of our franchisees profitable, which they are in the six figures but also their cash flow. Cash flow is king in this business. And so we even track what customers are spending just in the first eight weeks of their journey with us and that’s at a 10x of the cost to acquire.

So it is through having a lot of sophisticated data analytics that help drive targeted marketing for ongoing retention as well as a sophisticated tech stack to help with the client acquisition.

That’s awesome and we’re getting a little bit nerdy now but I like it because I know our listeners need to hear this because our industry needs this, because what you’re saying is, so to give an example, with high ticket trainers, a 1 to 10 or 1 to 15 is pretty awesome, meaning I put in a dollar towards customer acquisition, maybe that’s an ad in a newspaper, an ad in a magazine, an ad online whatever. And I will get $10 to $15 back. And so I’ve always used that as like that’s really great if you’ve got 10 to 15X. You know, meaning you put in a buck, you get 10 to 15 back, you can grow quite a bit. What you’re saying is that you guys are often able to get 20, 50 sometimes even up to 100X on your investment. Is that correct?

Absolutely. 50 would be the average tracked across all time in all locations. And 100X, I’m looking at our top 25% of customers. So this makes sense to me right now. And one of the reasons I wanted to talk to you, because I know what you guys did in 2020, how you brought on a whole bunch of new franchises in the middle of like this awesome apocalypse we’ve been going through when I heard that you have people buying multiple franchises. What my mind immediately said is they must have very, very good customer acquisition because if somebody is putting out money right now in the middle of a pandemic, and they’re gonna buy five units of Zoom Room, for example, they must feel pretty darn confident that they’re gonna get their money back and obviously make a profit off of it, you know, pretty quickly after that. And so can you talk a little bit about customer acquisition? Can you talk a little bit about what your guys’ strategy are for bringing on new clients quickly?

Yeah, absolutely. So we’ll have obviously multiple channels, One we’ve already talked about, and that’s just people’s willingness to recommend their friends. We are a retail location, brick and mortar and so, you know, there will be some drive by, walk by, location-based things in terms of what we’re doing online. A lot of it is anticipating changes in the social media platforms before they actually happen so that we’re ready ahead of time and have already developed a software solution to deal with it and a strategy and we’ve been able to do that multiple times.

So for example, in anticipation of Facebook changing their algorithm to sort of downplay the voice of businesses and play up only individuals speaking to their friends and family – We were able to design our own platform, software which we offer for free and at no cost for our franchisees to use or run that lets their customers actually share photos, videos and other media of their journey and all, you know, dogs jumping through hoops and flying over A-frames onto their own personal pages with all of the appropriate tagging. So that’s been one very efficient means of doing it. And then on the paid ads on paid social platforms, we use dynamic intelligence to change the content of ads.

But the most important is we built our own algorithm that optimizes targeting, and that’s really the best advice I can give is often it’s not so much about the creative itself, the visual, the copy, it’s really about knowing exactly who your audience is, and it’s always going to be more complex than just say male or female or age range – that’s old school and it gets very, very granular and you need a sophisticated set of data analytics to be able to do that and to constantly be fishing in the right pond, which moves day to day.

I like that. And you said something about you have this software that your customers use, this like an app where maybe they take a picture within the app and it hooks up to their Facebook account or their Instagram account and they just hit send and it already comes pre-loaded with the right hashtags and stuff like that. Is that what you mean?

It’s similar. It’s actually all done through email and text instead of through an app. One of the other things right now. As we’re speaking today, there’s a huge war going on between Apple and Facebook as Apple changes its privacy requirements. That is adversely affecting many, many small businesses. And Facebook is making a lot about that, that it’s hurting them. We’re actually unaffected. And part of that is we’ve stayed away from apps. There’s a value to them. But at the same time, the apps ultimately are at the whim of Apple or Android to change the rules and the privacy, how activity gets tracked within them. So we’ve actually skirted away from using any standalone apps, which gives us a lot more transparency with our customers and not to be at the mercy of the sort of tech giants having these battles and where the citizens in the town getting stepped on as they’re having their big Mothra wars.

Yeah, we do a lot of advertising on Facebook and thankfully our advertising is working as good as it ever has, but our tracking at this point is off because of that little war that Facebook and Apple are having right now.

Funny stuff these days. I want to learn more about like who’s owning these franchises and stuff like that. But let me take a quick break. When we come back, I’m gonna dig in deeper on what you guys are doing that’s bringing you clients on demand here. So hang on one second, we’ll be right back.

Alright, we’re back and we are talking with Mark Van Wye of Zoom Room, and we’re talking about how 2020 was a big year of growth for you guys. Right. Did you bring on a bunch of like new, like multi unit franchisees, like what happened to you guys in 2020?

We did, in spite of 2020 being 2020 for everybody. We actually opened three new locations in California, Florida and Arizona in 2020. And we sold another 15 locations that are now in the process of opening including our first three-unit deal in Austin, and our first five-unit deal just towards the end of 2020 in the Dallas market.

And so we’re really, I think now at the age and stage of a franchise where we are able to attract investors who are looking further down the road, looking for a longer investment. A typical dog daycare would cost about a million dollars to open, soup to nuts. I mean that’s your cost. A Zoom Room is about 1/4 of that, about $250,000. So it’s a very low cost.

So many investors of all types are so drawn to the pet industry right now. Pet Supplies Plus just was just acquired for 700 million a couple of days ago. And you know, and what they’re doing is they’re selling pet retail in the landscape with Chewy and Amazon duking it out and yet still can fetch prices like that.

So everybody wants to be in pet. But the price tag can be high. I think to a shrewd investor who sees how the pet market has done in down economies, even in a pandemic, the idea that for the price of one dog daycare, you could open four Zoom Rooms and not just have one location in the town, but you know, control the Atlanta market, control the Miami market and really build a nice moat around your business if you’re going to go in for a penny, going for a pound.

And so we’re finally getting attention there, which I love because we really designed Zoom Room to be semi-absentee, to be run by someone who has no prior experience, and who can hire staff from anywhere without any special knowledge and let us do all of the training and education needed to get it up and running.

How does that work? I mean do you guys have so many like operational processes that it’s easy? I mean because that’s like the holy grail for a lot of dog trainers. These days a lot of dog trainers are like I’d sure like to just manage my business from afar. What does it take to be able to actually do that, to manage a large business without having to be there every single day?

I think you need to have the skill set of some business experience and management. You have to have, worked high enough at a business or owned your own business so that you’re comfortable managing staff, you know how to do hiring and firing, and incentives and run a good team. You know how to look at a spreadsheet, you know how to look at cash flow, read a P&L. But other than general business experience, and I think a general excitement about the pet space, and about the town that you’re going to be serving. Other than that, you really can hire staff that are going to go through the Zoom Room training program.

And we like people who actually don’t have any prior experience, not just that they don’t have perhaps habits that we need to break them of. But we’d really like them to come to us being great at customer service, happy, energetic, outgoing, enthusiastic, and let us do the rest. So they go through almost a grad school level program that we’ve created in animal behavior and then the hands on component to get them familiar with all of the aspects of handling. It’s worked tremendously well for us. So do new trainers that they bring on.

So you’ve got somebody in California, Texas, Florida, where do they have to send people to your training school before deploying them back into their own business at the beginning?

When they first open, they will come out here and they’ll go through it and that’s included in the franchise fee. So there’s no added cost to that later on. The way it scales up at the point where they start realizing, okay now I need more trainers, I want to get even more classes going and the two people I started with now they need some breaks and they need to add more. At the point where they reached that in their journey, they have logged enough classroom hours that we actually let them do it themselves and so we take the brakes off of them, and then they can send their own new hires through the same program they went through. But instead of us acting as the mentors, they can now act as mentors to their own employees And so at that point they never have any added costs after the initial one.

Gotcha. This is so cool to hear, because I’ve been telling people for years that in this industry and the dog training industry there aren’t big players yet, but this is a multibillion dollar industry and big players are going to be around the corner as soon as they can learn how to monetize and scale this type of business. And it sounds like you guys are finding the processes that allow you to scale this type of business such that somebody can come in, open up four in one city, boom, and get going. And so I hope there’s two people listening. One, the person that says I gotta up my game, because there’s folks like Zoom Room, there’s folks like what we’re doing, plug myself here a little bit. But you know, there’s folks like those that are starting to take this to another level. Number one. And number two, people who are saying that I don’t want to up my game, let me just talk to these guys who already know how to do it, and I’ll just, I’ll just do what they’re doing. And so at this point, how many franchises do you have?

We have 12 that are open, and then 14 more that are in the process of opening right now, I think our next one will be opening this year. We should be opening them in Reno, Nevada, down in San Diego, another one up in Seattle, in Texas a whole bunch all around.

Where are you in California? I live in California. Where are you guys in California? Your locations right now?

We have them up in the Bay Area in Belmont, down in OC in Huntington Beach and in L.A. County we’ve got Sherman Oaks, Culver City, Redondo Beach, Thousand Oaks, a new one opening in Valencia, a new one opening in San Diego. And then we’re, those are the California ones.

Very awesome. Okay, And given Zoom Room, how many trainers work there, at most of them, in one location?

Part of how we stay so profitable is that we have only two people working at a given moment. So there’s two people; that’s someone working at the front desk and one trainer. Stores as they grow will have a deeper and deeper bench. Most stores typically have two or three trainers and then that can go up after that just so that people can float around, take time off and there can be more flexibility. Covid certainly has created more need for people to take time off to take care of family, things like that. But we’ve been able to stay open and and serve, being in greater demand than ever before.

Gotcha. And square footage, like what does the square footage run on a Zoom Room?

Again, how we keep the costs down and the profit high, so it’s a very small footprint: It’s under 3,000 square feet is all that you need. And it’s zoned retail so it can be really open anywhere in town where customers are already taking their dogs and out and you know, feel comfortable going out with their family. So there’s tremendous flexibility and really can be put in any urban or suburban area. I think rural is the only place that I’m not sure that a Zoom Room would make any sense. Just like you wouldn’t open a crossfit gym there. So pretty much where there’s a successful juice place, coffee place, gym, a Zoom Room typically fits right in and serves a similar clientele.

That’s awesome. Now, how have you guys managed to even open these during Covid? I mean with lockdown orders and all sorts of stuff like that. How are you guys navigating that atmosphere?

The opening has been pretty easy because the construction market has not really slowed down at all. Construction kept going throughout the country. Permitting definitely is slower I think than I’ve seen ever before. So just getting permits from cities with state governments and city governments have so many furloughed employees. That’s definitely been a rate-determining step.

But where we got very lucky is even when you and I spoke the first time a decade ago, the first thing you would learn walking into a Zoom Room was the Six Foot Rule, which is not a sign that we have a crystal ball, but it’s the rule that you always stay six feet away from all – it’s, as you know, Ty, it’s the length of a leash! So just as a because the customers are responsible for their dogs and they’re always with their dogs at all times, you keep six feet distance. So our facilities are built around that model.

So with small group classes able to accommodate the group class size with everyone six feet away, and our puppy classes are for under-vaccinated puppies And so we’ve always used hospital-grade germicide to hit all touch points throughout the day. So we were basically all set for Covid. Small group classes, the disinfectant, the six foot rule, it was all there. All we had to do was throw on the masks for our staff and our customers. And as we talked about earlier, start offering a lot more puppy classes.

I hope people listening right now are seeing the depth that it takes to build a sustainable model that can grow, because a lot of our listeners, they do want to grow. Some don’t. But either way, the amount of processes that you guys have built in is impressive. And this is something that a lot of people in our industry don’t think about. They don’t think about creating all these processes, whether we’re talking Covid or anything else. But like I’m sure you guys have a process for how to find your location and you have a process for how to mop the floor and you probably have a process for every darn thing that you guys do and that’s why you’re able to sit there in California, you’re in California right, where you’re able to be in California and run your business across the rest of the country in a skill-based business. This isn’t flipping hamburgers; this is people – there is nothing wrong with flipping hamburgers – but there’s a lot more skill involved with training a dog obviously and, and so you guys have been able to break everything down and systematize the whole process. I think that’s awesome. And so one last question, maybe I shouldn’t end with this question cause I don’t even know if you can answer it because I understand that with franchises, you know, there’s certain numbers you’re legally allowed to share and not if somebody is considering this, like what does revenue for one unit look like? I mean obviously it’s going to vary in things like that, but are you able to talk any numbers as far as that goes?

Yeah. Absolutely. We – one big change, from when you and I first spoke, to now since when I became CEO, it was really to focus on the unit economics and to develop the very processes you’re talking about; to make it to where this system just churns along and is profitable. So we now publish what Is optional for franchises, and it’s called an Item 19 disclosure. So when someone is interested in a Zoom Room franchise, they will read our franchise disclosure document that all franchisors are required to publish. And optionally we can put in financial performance statements into this Item 19. And so I’m legally allowed to share those numbers because we’ve already published them with the states and the federal government.

So for 2020 we saw year over year growth in sales four times the rate of the pet industry itself. On the unit side, we’re looking at 33.1% net profit margins. And that comes out to I think $149,000 and change, about $150,000 of net profit. And that’s the median across all of our stores. So that’s what people are looking at as just, the pure gravy net profit each year.

And to me, the exciting thing when you talk about processes is we figured everything out, except we keep figuring out more and more and better stuff. So every year, for the last three years we’ve been publishing all of our numbers, full P&Ls for people can read how each store is doing. We’re really excited and proud.

So we like to show all that laundry. We think that’s the stuff that gets investors excited at seeing how well the system works, and every year our numbers get better. I mean even 2020 which was the bonkers year.

That’s awesome. And that’s, I mean for somebody putting in 250, a return of 150 a year is, I mean that’s phenomenal, right? Like I’m not in your franchising industry, but that’s a very attractive, very attractive offer, right?

Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Hugely. So the gentleman who just opened up in Orlando at the very end of last year has already let us know that he’s expanding that footprint and ready to open another couple locations down there after – that’s something you usually, you might hear years down the line if ever. But a few weeks after opening, he already can see the numbers that he’s doing and just how excited the community is to have him there to have a place like that where they can congregate, get together and just have such an awesome time and a great experience.

That’s awesome. Well, cool, well thank you so much for being on the show. Can you tell people how they can learn more about what you’re doing? Follow along with Zoom Room? Where can they go for that?

Absolutely. We are at, and you’ll see a franchise link on the website if you want to go there. So we have a fully dedicated section at that gives you all the information about the opportunity. But if you just want to get a sense of what our classes look like and our schedule and prices, our consumer-facing site is at

That’s awesome. And we’ll include the website in the show notes and stuff like that. So well, great. I appreciate you being on. It’s awesome to see what you guys are accomplishing and I’m definitely following you because you know, we’re trying to do similar things and so to see what you guys are doing in this industry, people need to start paying attention to the Zoom Room and, and the folks that are actually expanding because if you don’t pay attention, they’re gonna take your market share and be happy about it.

So well, cool, thanks again for being on. Thank you. I really appreciate it. And for the listeners, you know, make sure to head over to Pet life radio dot com, listen to all the other episodes of six figure dog business and when you’re done listen to all the other episodes of the other cool shows, there’s tons of cool shows on pet life radio dot com.